Status

[Takophiliac]

Do we have the authority (allowance, priveledge, etc) to work on loud thunder per the land-manager? Or is it abandoned, with no hope, and just here as a relic of the past?

[Rage]

We would need to re-establish our relationship with the park Ranger before doing trail work there. IMO, we would first need to decide we have the resources to take this trail system back on (time commitments, etc). These trails are wholy shared between hikers, equestrians, and cyclists. Considering the brewhaha on the other forum and our prior challenges with keeping trails in good shape out there, I think it's unlikely we would take this on unless we could have separate trails from equestrians.

Rg.

[Bexter]

There has been casual discussion about this and Rage is 100% correct. The two big issues are 1) the current multi-purpose status (inclusive of equestrians) of the LT trails and 2) whether the FORC membership has the desire and member backing/willingness to perform the back-breaking work to maintain another park in addition to the four we currently maintain. We are starting to get spread thin, and it would be poor form to attempt to take something on and do poorly tarnishing FORC's image and impacting the land manager. LT does have amazing potential if we were able to secure approval from the County to build a separate bike/hike trail system out there with separate trail head from the equestrian trails. I am aware that the new ranger is supportive of mtn biking. But, before we embark down that road, we have more work to finish on our existing trails (Illiniwek, Sunderbruch and eventually the skills area at Sco Co Pa). After that, we as a club would have to decide whether we can support 5 trail systems. PAMBA is an example of an amazing club that had high aspirations that with time took its toll. The club fragmented in my opinion because of burn out from too many events and too many parks to maintain.

[dgw2jr]

There has been casual discussion about this and Rage is 100% correct. The two big issues are 1) the current multi-purpose status (inclusive of equestrians) of the LT trails and 2) whether the FORC membership has the desire and member backing/willingness to perform the back-breaking work to maintain another park in addition to the four we currently maintain. We are starting to get spread thin, and it would be poor form to attempt to take something on and do poorly tarnishing FORC's image and impacting the land manager. LT does have amazing potential if we were able to secure approval from the County to build a separate bike/hike trail system out there with separate trail head from the equestrian trails. I am aware that the new ranger is supportive of mtn biking. But, before we embark down that road, we have more work to finish on our existing trails (Illiniwek, Sunderbruch and eventually the skills area at Sco Co Pa). After that, we as a club would have to decide whether we can support 5 trail systems. PAMBA is an example of an amazing club that had high aspirations that with time took its toll. The club fragmented in my opinion because of burn out from too many events and too many parks to maintain.

What is planned for our existing parks?

[jimithng23]

I can't speak on the other Steward's behalfs (behalves...meh, whatever)...

But I can give you the lowdown on Sunderbruch:

Sunderbruch Park 2011 Trail Plan

We will be flagging for the Jubilee re-route/extension in the next coming weeks and hopefully begin construction shortly thereafter. Mother Nature will be the determining factor in how we move forward from here until next spring.

After that, other than minor tweaking here and there, Sunderbruch will be primarily maintenance year to year. And if you were around this year, you know that it takes roughly 50-60 hours of volunteer time to weed whack the entire system, and that typically needs to happen 2-3 times a year.

Doesn't seem like much just reading it, but actually getting it done is a completely different story.

[speedjunkie]

Went to LT this summer in July to do some recon. Its still there but very rough do to horse people riding right after a rain. Its amazing the rangers haven't shut down the horse people yet because they are trashing the place. We would want to do a separate system for sure. After walking the trails I only see one thing that separates LT form sunderbrunch, lots and lots of land. So if we wanted to build a huge 25+ mile trail system I could see building it back up out there but I'm more then happy with having 4 places close to town with lots of variation between them to match the daily riding mood.

[Bexter]

That is why we gave up on LT... we'd maintain the trails and people would take their horses out after rain, etc. and cause damage to the trail. Hoof pock marks everywhere and introduction of erosion issues (trenches being formed down hills from horse hooves sliding down the middle of wet trail hills). The long-time ranger out there was not supportive of biking nor was there any willingness to allow us to develop a separate trail system. Forcmeister worked tirelessly out there (for years) and tried working with the equestrians to no avail. There is a new Forest Preserve Committe Chairperson (Tom Rockwell) who took over for a person not at all interested in what bikers wanted. Not sure where Tom is on that matter, but the new ranger IS interested in biking out there.

Illiniwek Park is also owned by RI County and the Forrest Preserve Director is quite pleased with FORC's efforts out there though I think the ranger isn't entirely thrilled. Loud Thunder is also a RI County property and who knows what the future will hold in terms of their willingness, should we decide that this is a project we are willing (and capable) of taking on. Clearly the potential for an epic trail system is high due to the vast space and the change in elevation. The logical mind would think that if we proved ourselves with the Illiniwek Park project that RI County would be enticed to consider a separate mtn biking trail system at LT (the revenue aspect may interest them... attracting mtn bikers out to LT may result in dollars spent on camping fees, fuel and food purchases in the County's jurisdiction thereby contributing to the tax base. etc.).

Food for thought. We have a difficult time getting the work done at the parks we currently have (see Aarons post about trying to get weedwacking done) and adding to that at least at this point doesn't seem like a good idea (if the County was willing to allow us to build a separate trail system). And, of course, the idea for the future (if the membership felt it could handle the additional work load) would not be up for consideration unless the County was agreeable to a separate trail system (sans equestrians).

[Takophiliac]

This is going to make some slightly exasperated, but, where do we start?

What I'm hearing is that we need to discuss with the membership first.

[jimithng23]

Its all up to the club's members and if they, we, feel they're ready to handle another trail system.

My opinion? We have a difficult enough time with maintenance with the 4 systems currently. So unless there's a large contingent willing to embark on the journey of building an entirely new trail system, I think it's best to hold off.

[Vibrato]

I, for one, would encourage everyone to get out on trail days and help get the work done at the existing parks. Having 4 different trail systems with 4 different flavors of trails is an astonishing feat for a metropolitan area of this size. A willingness from mountain bikers to work in parks, even ones not necessarily close to home has played a huge roll in making this happen.

WHEN we go back into Loud Thunder, it will have to be on agreeable terms for Mountina Bikers, mainly, Hike/Bike trails completely seperate from other trail users trails, preferably with stiff penalties for misuse, and double penalties for anyone misusing the trails or on the wrong trails who pretends they didn't know or didn't see the signs.

One of the many reasons we have such a good relationship with the land managers for our existing parks is that we didn't try to force ourselves into them. We more or less said here's what we want, here's what we'll provide. If we can't agree on the basics, we'll build trails somewhere else. I feel we MUST take this stance with Loud Thunder in the hopes that we would be allowed to build an Epic style trail system that would draw thousand from all over the mid-west- similar to Levis Trow, Kettle Moraine, Brown County. (Copper Harbor and Brown County have tapped into the MTB scene so well and make so much from MTB tourism that they have funding for full time staff to build trails as their primary employment! (DREAM JOB!)

In my opinion, beginning to work on the trails at Loud Thunder without this basic understanding between FORC and the Loud Thunder management would only bring the return of previous long running conflicts, prolong problems best left behind and undermine any potential for the mutual consent for a truly world class sytem. As Sunder and Illiniwek gets built out, the opportunity to focus future efforts on a new system with existing personell increases. On top of this, we always see an influx of MTBers when we begin building in a new park. Taking both of these into consideration, it would seem that there is the "potential" for FORC to handle another trail system.

[DH001]

I agree with what others have said about our members being spread too thin on four trail systems as well as the problems we have had with shared equestrian/hiking/cycling trails at LT. Loud Thunder has huge potential but we need to change some of the management issues at the park and grow the club to tackle such a project.

At Illiniwek, I anticipate we will be building/tweaking trail up until summer/fall 2012. Sill have ~3/4 mile of trail to complete.

[Home Grown Turtle]

This thread has me asking why we don't have a trail steward assigned to Loud Thunder, if to do nothing more than keep an open line of communication between the club and the park about a return effort there in the future.

[dru_b]

been doing alot of lurking in the shadows lately and just read through this entire post again. loud thunder is an awesome area with tons of land, agreeable by all. BUT as for the right time being now to approach the reentry? i should step out on the no side right now. I havent been to a trail day at all this entire year and i can say the same for a MAJORITY of the general membership within forc. the select few that have taken time to build and maintain the systems we currently have running have done an awesome job and taking on more than we can handle will only thwart that effort.

BUT, if we are going to talk place to start building more trails, have we ever had SERIUOS talks with blackhawk state park? yes, i know its small and not much land, but look at illinewik and what it has become. blackhawk gives us another urban enviornment to work with. its sooper close to many so travel shouldnt be an issue. another chance to shine in dirt rag magazine in the making.......

just sayin.

[dgw2jr]

Kyla and I checked out Loud Thunder for the first time today and I must say the trails are pretty much done for. I would say the only way you could ride out there is if you had a 6-inch full suspension downhill specific mountain bike and even then you won't have any fun. The trails are sunk 2 feet deep in some places where it seems the equestrians struggle with the grades when it is wet. Erosion seems to have already taken a heavy toll on these trails.

BTW, I saw an Endomorph track out there. I was chastised heavily for recognizing it lol

[ValRuns]

I'm putting the same post multiple times in an effort to get somebody to volunteer to go help me clean out there! LOL

[Russhole]

Nice try dude, but it's hard enough to find time where our efforts are rewarded.

[dgw2jr]

Nice try dudette, but it's hard enough to find time where our efforts are rewarded.

Fixed it for ya ;-)